tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post6603691108929313317..comments2024-03-28T23:12:39.195-06:00Comments on Der Alte Fritz Journal: Zorndorf 1758 - Terrain DecisionsDer Alte Fritzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01578422757511400566noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-71449732760495608222017-12-12T00:31:12.727-06:002017-12-12T00:31:12.727-06:00Hi Jim, in 2016 our Chicago area SYW group did Zor...Hi Jim, in 2016 our Chicago area SYW group did Zorndorf using our Enhanced Age of Reason rules, in 15mm, with a 1" =50 yards ground scale. <br /><br />I second James's suggestion on the extra width and the Cossacks. We normally play on a 12' x 5' table which accommodates the battlefield, but added 2" to the East flank to allow the Cav especially the Cossacks the room to maneuver. I agree that the Cossacks are mostly worthless in a regular battle as they cannot charge the front of Formed Inf/Cav, but they could charge flanks and rears of formed and any bad morale units. As the Prussian RW cav engages, opportunities may arise for the Cossacks. Cossack casualties did not count against army withdrawal so it was no loss to the Russians to lose them.<br /><br />There will be a lot to think about in planning the battle. These are some of the things I anticipated and prepared for or the players raised in the course of the game:<br /><br />Do you allow the Russians to redeploy the RW Cossacks to the Center or the LW?<br /><br />Do you allow the Russians to advance their Center Inf to tie up Prussians in the Stein Busch?<br /><br />With Zorndorf burning do you have a dice role to see if any Prussians (Kanitz) drift off course so that they are not where the players want them?<br /><br />A Russian player will not want to counterattack thus exposing himself to Seydlitz. Do you have an automatic counterattack rule forcing the Russians to advance should Manteufel be repulsed badly and fall back?<br /><br />Exploding the myth that the Russian Arty was the best of the SYW (Austria was the best with Prussia a close second), the Prussians outnumber the Russians in Field Arty and Weight at Zorndorf.<br /><br />I have seen the Russians have 50, 60, and 80-84 field guns in sources, where the Prussians are pretty well documented at 117-119 field guns. will you have the Russians outgunned in numbers and weight? <br /><br />If so if the Prussians are able to not required to do the historical bombardment at long range and instead move their Arty to normal range they can blast the Russians. Do you restrict them and how? If they have to bombard is there a penalty for the smoke from Zorndorf?<br /><br />The Prussian Arty has a mix of 12lb's here, Heavies like the Brummer and the Neu/Mit 12lb austrian copy, and Mediums like the Lt 12lb. By my calculations about 50% are Medium guns the Lt 12lb and the Brummers and Neu/Mit are 25% each. Do you account for the difference in Prussian 12 lb's?<br /><br />The Russians have a lot of Regt/Lt/battalion guns(BG)types. They have the 3pdr BG. They then have the 60 Shuwalow How and possibly some 1/5 pud guns. Historically these guns were short range like BG and performed poorly. How do you account for them?<br /><br />I know you have played with Arty Ammo limits you will need that in this game.<br /><br />The Russian Reg Cav is generally Avg to poor especially the Hussars, where the Prussians have the best SYW cav. Does your OOB ratings account for this? <br /><br /><br />Jung Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06464191565445705066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-44948425833876855712017-12-09T03:35:04.681-06:002017-12-09T03:35:04.681-06:00The last time we played Zorndorf, using Black Powd...The last time we played Zorndorf, using Black Powder, we played them as skirmish only, so they couldn't charge formed troops in any event unless the target was already engaged in melee. In a similar tooth pulling vein we didn't allow them to charge guns either. Their low attack value merely gave them the ability to swing a narrow balance. Given they had to take a break test every time they took a casualty ('wavering' troops) they were generally in, out, and gone in pretty short order when they did charge home. They also activated individually on Demiku's command rolls - so they tended to sit unactivated anyway. (Demiku was nominally in command of all the Cossacks at Zorndorf).<br /><br />We did allow them to shoot (very poorly) which served to make them a nuisance - they harassed Schorlemer's cavalry at every opportunity but only had 'nibble' value. I thought this dealt well, in an abstract way, to their usually cowardly tactics of picking off the 'sickly'.<br /><br />Of all the times we've played with Cossacks this probably came closest to representing them. Not perfect, by any means, but close enough to give a reasonable narrative.JAMES ROACHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04019888286247164276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-44809517131770441132017-12-08T23:46:03.121-06:002017-12-08T23:46:03.121-06:00Jim, I really enjoy your "planning notes"...Jim, I really enjoy your "planning notes" for these events, and watch them unfold. I will "watch this space". Cheers, Rohan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-56380726428686409602017-12-08T22:00:15.924-06:002017-12-08T22:00:15.924-06:00Hi James: I have some Cossacks that I want to use ...Hi James: I have some Cossacks that I want to use in my games, but I don't consider them to be battlefield cavalry. My thought is to tell the Russian players that their Cossacks will NEVER charge into formed infantry or cavalry, but not reveal this information to the Prussian players.<br /><br />I might allow Cossacks charge into the rear of an enemy unit.<br /><br />Knowing how the demented minds of wargamers work, they will push this rule to the limits and attempt to maneuver their Cossacks around the flanks of the Prussian army and,roam around in the rear areas.<br /><br />Should this get too silly then I might compel the Cossacks to seek loot and food rather than charging into some Prussian foot or horse.<br /><br />JimDer Alte Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578422757511400566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-88643743924832621472017-12-08T15:36:03.029-06:002017-12-08T15:36:03.029-06:00Indeed. There is, in my experience, no need for &#...Indeed. There is, in my experience, no need for 'dead space' flank ground here beyond the Russian deployment. As the Russian line extends further than the Prussian line and the Prussians don't have the numbers to match up, the Prussians are outflanked and must make do.<br /><br />Will you have Cossacks? I'm always at a loss as to how to model them. Making them as useless as they were makes them a pointless addition. Making them useful makes them over powerful, sometimes battle winning.JAMES ROACHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04019888286247164276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-9740385495611499422017-12-08T11:35:38.840-06:002017-12-08T11:35:38.840-06:00I agree so I added 3 more feet for a total of 15ft...I agree so I added 3 more feet for a total of 15ft long ( my maximum table length) last night. It really opens up the Langer Grund area of the table.Der Alte Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578422757511400566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-55004737818742240292017-12-08T08:32:16.159-06:002017-12-08T08:32:16.159-06:00One of my favourite battles!
It looks like it wi...One of my favourite battles! <br /><br />It looks like it will be a great re-fight. I would definitely add the extra four feet. The cavalry there greatly effects the freedom of action of Dohna and Browne.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />JamesJAMES ROACHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04019888286247164276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-77105983650543038232017-12-07T15:42:30.875-06:002017-12-07T15:42:30.875-06:00Always a tricky thing to get the terrain 'righ...Always a tricky thing to get the terrain 'right' for a game. In my experience, it may take a few run throughs before everything is sorted out. Looking forward to more posts on this subject.Steve J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12143308117853983963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-2009572822220668612017-12-07T14:04:57.286-06:002017-12-07T14:04:57.286-06:00Amazing work there, I am gob smacked!Amazing work there, I am gob smacked!Herkybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14259986798117222889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-92121468670223297922017-12-07T13:42:31.267-06:002017-12-07T13:42:31.267-06:00Superb, a wonderful looking table with nice explan...Superb, a wonderful looking table with nice explanations...Well I'm leaving you, time to choose my lunch menu!Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08913029478686087197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-37081899543040277132017-12-07T12:56:18.375-06:002017-12-07T12:56:18.375-06:00Fabulous. Should be a cracker of a game.Fabulous. Should be a cracker of a game.Colin Ashtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11650235978313356607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6504742686650223041.post-9289314942151054942017-12-07T12:36:10.407-06:002017-12-07T12:36:10.407-06:00A well-timed prod towards Zorndorf 2018!A well-timed prod towards Zorndorf 2018!Jonathan Freitaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07862373894196924886noreply@blogger.com